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Dan_Moroney

RX7 FD Rough Ideal and smokey (Video attached)

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Hi Guys,

My RX7 is sick i believe :( 

Car has rough idle, blue smoke first then black smoke.

I swapped the plugs out for brand new one ran it again and started doing the same things and coated the plugs with oil, (Picture is of the brand new spark plug)

I suspect i have a water seal issue as the level of the coolant keeps sucking down, i didn't want to run it for too long while its like this,  so im not sure if the coolant is bubbling (Champagne  test) or if theres a leak under the car. I cant seem to see any leak it but again I  only ran for the length of the video as I didn't want to hurt anything. 

Can anyone shed light on this for me before I start robbing banks to pay for a rebuild.

See below link to pictures and video of it running.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iAiTIK3GfIT0NXdHRSRzZMUzQ 

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Looks like it's overfuelling like a mothertrucker due to the amount of black smoke coming out. Have you been adjusting any intake/boost pipes of late or what were you doing with the car immediately before this started happening?

Do you premix at all & if so in what quantities?

When you say the coolant is sucking down, do you mean with the coolant cap open on the front of the block like I think I saw in the vid?

What's the history of the engine? (Sitting up for any length of time; have you ever driven it before without issue; etc)

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4 hours ago, jp said:

Looks like it's overfuelling like a mothertrucker due to the amount of black smoke coming out. Have you been adjusting any intake/boost pipes of late or what were you doing with the car immediately before this started happening?

Do you premix at all & if so in what quantities?

When you say the coolant is sucking down, do you mean with the coolant cap open on the front of the block like I think I saw in the vid?

What's the history of the engine? (Sitting up for any length of time; have you ever driven it before without issue; etc)

Bought the car back in may , in my ownership i had it parked up for 2-3 months, it was previously off the road for a few years, but it always ran and driven every now and then.

Previous owner did pre mix it cant remember what quantity he said, it hasn't been driven much in my ownership (Same fuel in it from the last owner) , due to a few bits needed doing to it. suspension wise and wheel wise.

Before this started happening there was no issues with starting it  or while driving it.

However there was 2 occasions where the car was started and moved then switched off after 4-5mins.

First i thought it was flooded so did the usual of sinking the accelerator, then i took out the engine ign fuse and cracked it over a good few times with plugs out of the car.

I myself have done no adjusting with the car. it has Power FC but I never went near it.

Coolant is leaking someplace id imagine i just can pin point where.

 

 

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Sounds like its on one Rotor man , video is not very clear sound wise !

as regards coolant if its 100% not leaking out you more than likely have coolant seal / jacket failure ! 

you should get a compression test to judge where the engine is at , a compression test can sometimes show coolant seal failure also.

 

The blue and black smoke can happen for many reasons one being side seal failure , engine will continue to run and will pickup on second rotor when revs are high enough , but at low revs the fuel just gets pulverised and doesnt really go bang which then burns the oil scraper rings which then start leaking oil ...

if it flooded for no reason id look at getting it compression tested !

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17 hours ago, Dan_Moroney said:

Bought the car back in may , in my ownership i had it parked up for 2-3 months, it was previously off the road for a few years, but it always ran and driven every now and then.

Previous owner did pre mix it cant remember what quantity he said, it hasn't been driven much in my ownership (Same fuel in it from the last owner) , due to a few bits needed doing to it. suspension wise and wheel wise.

Before this started happening there was no issues with starting it  or while driving it.

However there was 2 occasions where the car was started and moved then switched off after 4-5mins.

First i thought it was flooded so did the usual of sinking the accelerator, then i took out the engine ign fuse and cracked it over a good few times with plugs out of the car.

I myself have done no adjusting with the car. it has Power FC but I never went near it.

Coolant is leaking someplace id imagine i just can pin point where.

 

 

if its driven every now and then and youve had it since may perhaps the fuel in the tank has gone bad, which could be one of the issues, best drain it and put fresh fuel in, does it have alot of white smoke on start up? you can  do a champagne test on start up, just fill the filler neck up to the top and start it up u should see bubbles straight away its got seal failure, blue smoke would indicate oil and it does look like its over fueling alot, if its on 1 rotor then one of the chambers wouldnt be firing and plugs would have fuel on them , always best to get a compression test though just to rule out the main things, were you located?

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As @Bradyy said it sounds like it's on one rotor, get a video of it idling we would be sable to tell more. It looks like it's burning oil to me or possible running rich as jp mentioned. Check the intake pipes and intercooler for excessive oil that might point to the turbo beeping the problem.

Coolant seal failure would produce white smoke and run on one rotor initially until the second rotor clears the coolant out. I know that from experience :(. Ud also be able to tell if there is coolant on your plugs instead of fuel.

How much coolant are u losing? On a FD the coolant will typically sit towards the bottom of the filler neck. If you keep topping it up to the top it will push the excess coolant into the overflow tank. And after running the car give it time to suck the coolant back into the system before opening the cap.

As mentioned champagne test and compression test will help. A regular compression tester with the Schrader valve removed is good enough to diagnose if the rotors are making compression or not.

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On 11/3/2017 at 9:56 AM, Bradyy said:

Sounds like its on one Rotor man , video is not very clear sound wise !

as regards coolant if its 100% not leaking out you more than likely have coolant seal / jacket failure ! 

you should get a compression test to judge where the engine is at , a compression test can sometimes show coolant seal failure also.

 

The blue and black smoke can happen for many reasons one being side seal failure , engine will continue to run and will pickup on second rotor when revs are high enough , but at low revs the fuel just gets pulverised and doesnt really go bang which then burns the oil scraper rings which then start leaking oil ...

if it flooded for no reason id look at getting it compression tested !

 

On 11/3/2017 at 12:00 PM, seanmcg said:

if its driven every now and then and youve had it since may perhaps the fuel in the tank has gone bad, which could be one of the issues, best drain it and put fresh fuel in, does it have alot of white smoke on start up? you can  do a champagne test on start up, just fill the filler neck up to the top and start it up u should see bubbles straight away its got seal failure, blue smoke would indicate oil and it does look like its over fueling alot, if its on 1 rotor then one of the chambers wouldnt be firing and plugs would have fuel on them , always best to get a compression test though just to rule out the main things, were you located?

I tested it over the weekend and there is no bubbles but it does overflow. (Need to upload the video), im located in Dungarvan Co Waterford.

On 11/3/2017 at 1:10 PM, laned3 said:

As @Bradyy said it sounds like it's on one rotor, get a video of it idling we would be sable to tell more. It looks like it's burning oil to me or possible running rich as jp mentioned. Check the intake pipes and intercooler for excessive oil that might point to the turbo beeping the problem.

Coolant seal failure would produce white smoke and run on one rotor initially until the second rotor clears the coolant out. I know that from experience :(. Ud also be able to tell if there is coolant on your plugs instead of fuel.

How much coolant are u losing? On a FD the coolant will typically sit towards the bottom of the filler neck. If you keep topping it up to the top it will push the excess coolant into the overflow tank. And after running the car give it time to suck the coolant back into the system before opening the cap.

As mentioned champagne test and compression test will help. A regular compression tester with the Schrader valve removed is good enough to diagnose if the rotors are making compression or not.

 

ill get a video of it idling.

 

thanks for all the comments lads hopefully i or someone can get to the bottom of it.

I would be happy to give it to someone to check it out thats around the south east.

 

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On 06/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, Dan_Moroney said:

I tested it over the weekend and there is no bubbles but it does overflow. (Need to upload the video), im located in Dungarvan Co Waterford.

Overflowing is normal once it gets up to temperature (hence why they have an expansion tank & the AST - Air Separation Tank). If there are no Champagne-like bubbles coming from it then it shouldn't be water seals (headgasket leak/coolant-into-combustion-chamber equivalent) but there are kits you can get that test for exhaust emissions in your coolant that plug into your rad cap.

 

Have you:

1) Tried draining out all the existing fuel (given you don't know how long the previous owner had the fuel in there for) & putting in fresh stuff? Leave out the premix/2-stroke oil for now once you're still running the OMP (which I'd assume you are if it's relatively standard engine) - you can add more in later once you've established the underlying issue & solved it.

2) Changed the fuel filter (located above the diff)? This should be done every 100K KMs at most & if you've no record of it being done, definitely do it.

3) Double-checked all your coils are firing & are plugged from the correct coil into the correct spark plug?

 

On 06/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, Dan_Moroney said:

I would be happy to give it to someone to check it out thats around the south east.

This is the current list of rotary garages etc around the country - none in the South East unless you can get in touch with Fiachra in Cork:

http://irishrotary.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10796-rotary-garages-mechanics-service-providers-list/

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21 minutes ago, jp said:

Overflowing is normal once it gets up to temperature (hence why they have an expansion tank & the AST - Air Separation Tank). If there are no Champagne-like bubbles coming from it then it shouldn't be water seals (headgasket leak/coolant-into-combustion-chamber equivalent) but there are kits you can get that test for exhaust emissions in your coolant that plug into your rad cap.

 

Have you:

1) Tried draining out all the existing fuel (given you don't know how long the previous owner had the fuel in there for) & putting in fresh stuff? Leave out the premix/2-stroke oil for now once you're still running the OMP (which I'd assume you are if it's relatively standard engine) - you can add more in later once you've established the underlying issue & solved it.

2) Changed the fuel filter (located above the diff)? This should be done every 100K KMs at most & if you've no record of it being done, definitely do it.

3) Double-checked all your coils are firing & are plugged from the correct coil into the correct spark plug?

 

This is the current list of rotary garages etc around the country - none in the South East unless you can get in touch with Fiachra in Cork:

http://irishrotary.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10796-rotary-garages-mechanics-service-providers-list/

Thanks JP appreciate that! 

I will do all the steps outlined and see how i go.

 

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You said there was 2 occasions where the car was started for 4-5 minutes and moved. 

 

If if these are the last 2 times the car was started, I would start her up, and rev it 2-3k revs for up to a minute to see if all the plugs start firing, try clear whatever(if anything) is fouling them.

 

 

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If you have a hand commander then check what it reports as the water temp. A faulty sensor usually makes the computer think it's at -40C and overfuels like a bitch. This will cause it to run rough with black smoke. If not that it could be an oil control ring which means engine would have to come out. Start with the water temp sensor.

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On 11/14/2017 at 1:50 PM, littlefeck said:

If you have a hand commander then check what it reports as the water temp. A faulty sensor usually makes the computer think it's at -40C and overfuels like a bitch. This will cause it to run rough with black smoke. If not that it could be an oil control ring which means engine would have to come out. Start with the water temp sensor.

These are the readings im getting.

IMG_0538.jpg

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